Tannoy Berkeley, or JP pays a visit.

As the woofs in the AR-9 are crossed out at 200 Hz and the Berkeleys (check the backplate) are spec'd -3dB down at 35 Hz, I'd think that you're getting a fair bit of excess mid and upper bass. So, keep that in mind if the bass seems overpowering making the sound seem darker and muddier than you'd expect. Also, the on axis treble response has a slight rise due to the horn. Tannoy's original documentation recommends listening 15 degrees off-axis for flattest response, preferably with the speaks toed in to an aim point a couple of feet in front of your listening position. While this provides strong center fill with wider spacings, I much preferred to aim them at a point several feet (~4-5ft) behind my listening position to be at the proper off-axis position while maintaining the very tight imaging the DC design is capable of. You might also want to play with the two controls on the front that both control the treble roll-off and relative output level -- more info.

Kelly, I'm afraid that I don't know about how soon they should be done.

- JP

the only excess i detected was eliminated by retarding the bass until sonic balance was achieved. the rest you have explained to me before, and try as i might, i cannot hear this shortcoming from the horn.

i havent played with placement yet, they sound fine just where they are. i'll fiddle with that as well.

Tannoy Berkley -vs- AR-9, part 1:

tonight, with both sets of speakers fully operational (Luxman on Tannoy and AR-9 highs and Yamaha on AR-9 lows), i A/B'd them directly. unless otherwise noted, volume levels were at what i consider "normal" and was not adjusted when switching between the speakers. the material was Elton John's "Tumbleweed Connection" and "Honky Chateau", Midnight Oil "10 to 1", Peter Gabriel first solo album and several cuts that i use for reference, all on cd.

Tannoy Berkley with the AR-9 woofers active:
i set the Berkley's just outside, and in front of the 9's, toeing them in slightly. this improved imaging and provided a bigger soundstage from yesterdays session. presentation and sonic quality remained unchanged. am really liking the Berkley (it seems they were made for early Peter Gabriel), the way they project male vocals and percussion is simply outstanding.

in comparison to the 9's, their greater sensitivity is quite noticable and pleasant. they are warmer, yet accuracy and detail, so far as i can tell at this point, are a toss-up. they have a slight edge in dynamics, and with their new placement, imaging and soundstage are better. as i noted above, male vocals and pecussion shine and there is a noticable "lushness" to the overall sound that is very alluring.

i am still suprised at how well the low end of the 9's integrate with the Berkley's. also suprising was that different music styles did not seem to have any affect on this aspect.

Tannoy Berkley alone:
i would hesitate to call the Berkely bass shy, but they definately benefit from the added low end the 9's provide.

AR-9:
other than the low end (the 9's dominate), the Berkley's do everything else at least as well, and most things better than the 9's. even with material that is a bit edgy and raw (Midnight Oil) it was no better than a draw for the 9's. orchestra, acoustics, vocals, percussion all are in favor of the Berkley.

this is not to say i am unhappy or dissatisfied with the 9's, far from it. where i was able to detect a superior character with the Berkley, i had to listen intently and pay close attention in order to discern the differences. Todd called right in the middle of things and when i went back to my session, i had forgotten which speaker i was listening to. just then my oldest daughter came home and i wanted to see if she could tell the difference between the speakers and had her listen to the Berkley's for a minute. i went to switch over to the 9's and discovered that we were already listening to the 9's and not the Berkley's.

one more thing:
all the above was done at "normal" volume levels. from time to time i do like to crank it and tonight i did. now i finally understand what JP has been trying to tell me about the horn on the Berkley. at high volumes the horn makes its presence known. i didnt find it harsh, more like "too forward". the lushness gets lost and it starts to sound kind of odd. higher notes, especially strings (and i can imagine female vocals would be too) are over accentuated and start to become overbearing. i'll have to play with the speaker controls to see if this character can be tamed.

for 90% of my listening, i'll take the Berkley's with the 9's backing up on the low end. when i want to rock out, i'll take the 9's. if i had to choose between the Berkley's alone (no help on the low end) and the 9's, i dont know that i can make that call yet. further listening is required.

Nice write-up Scott. I'm looking forward to Part 2.

Good write up, Scott. I too am waiting for Part II.

Considering how much you love your AR-9s and use them as your reference when listening to other speakers, I think that you're calling it a toss up with the Tannoys is saying a lot. It's also saying a lot for the AR-9s to be doing just fine against a pair of speakers regularly selling for 2-3x their price.

Want to really hear the Tannoys sing? Play some Abbey Road Studio recorded music. Tannoys were their mastering reference and were used with the likes of the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Jeff Beck, etc. The saying is that when you listen to their albums on a pair of Tannoys, you really get what they're supposed to sound like. Maybe you'll like the combo.

- JP

i'll do that. it will be tough for anything to best what they do with early Peter Gabriel. the voicing and atmosphere are like nothing else i've heard.

my preference between the speakers is for the Tannoy's - backed up by the 9's.

I look forward to hearing some Jeff Beck through them as i have not listened to Beck in a while and this will give a good excuse to do so. Once the Tannoys are removed from Scott's cold dead fingers what do you suggest they get powered with on my end?

Way too forward 80's british sound that I hate, and the mids, are as scott helped me descirbe "Mushy".

Ok, a little harsh, but that was only the first two songs and they were 80's pop british sound, and scott had the tannoys running along with his ar9's on the lows,
I personally did not care for that sound, it seemed to suck the low mids and high lows out of the room. when he switched to just the tannoys they sounded rich and lush sounding speaker, actually one of the better sounding speakers I have heard.

We played some david sanborn "inside cd" song 4, it has a fairly deep bass signature that I wanted to see if the tannoys could handle it. I was pretty sure the 9's would, and I also knew that my vandersteens would drop off on the low portions of that specific track. well the 9's went down low and sounded great. The tannoys sounded beautifully rich, except they could not go that low. I had no pre-concieved thoughts as to how low they could go, but it did not surprise me one way or another. We did the same comparison with the 9's on the lows again, backing up the tannoys and again I did not care for that mushy, fat sound either. Scott likes that configuration, but I did not. which is ok, I'm right and he is wrong, ok wrong thread sorry.

we took a break, had some company over who doesnt like music except for crap, anyway when we got back to it again we played some peter gabriel and we had a little A-B switching going on and I was literally amazed at the way the tannoys presented the vocals and acoustic guitar work. It was literally like nothing I had heard before. Super smooth with a gi-hugic soundstage. we turned it up a little and here is the bad part, it was like "glare", like standing in the bright sunlight on a wet spring morning squinting. It wasnt schrill or anything that bad but it was easily noticable and would become annoying in a hurry. Turn it down a little and you are back to heaven.

Of all the speakers I have heard the tannoys are a full step step ahead when it comes to vocals and acoustics. and the sad part is "I didnt have a ton of time to spend" I am positive they are not a versatile speaker. by that I mean loud rock, pop, jazz, fusion, etc. They appeared to be fairly limited in that regard. I think they could give my vandersteens a run for there money in the vocal and acoustic arena, but they are not as well rounded. And I also believe my vandersteens give the ar9's a solid run for there money in all areas except they just cant go as low as the 9, otherwise I think they can hang.

Hopefully soon I am going to bring my Sansui 1000A over and run the tannoys, I am very hopefull that the tube sound will harness that horn.

will let you all know when we hook up the sui.

elroy

This post has been edited by Elroy on February 20, 2007 05:49 pm

There are two treble level controls on the baffle behind the bottom grill segment. Unless Scott has already done some experimenting, they were left at the neutral position which translates to being a little bit hot at higher volume levels thanks to that horn. Dropping the "energy" control should've helped the issue at volume. The Tannoys are a bit finicky about music just as they are gear, so beware recordings that are a bit harsh on their own.

- JP

nope, havent fiddled with any controls on the Tannoy's yet. i'm enjoying them immensly as they are. i'll start playing with them this weekend, cant devote time to any critical listening until then.

Ever get the chance to try the tubes and level controls?

- JP

I wish, dingus is putting a floor in, and I am preparing to go to Sand Lake for the weekend and I bought another little toy, this one for my wife.



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But it will happen next week for sure. I am going to bring the sui 1000a and check them out.

elroy

plenty of chances, just no desire as of yet. when Todd comes over again i will make sure to attempt to dial them in. Todd was more sensative than i to the horn at higher volumes, so i'll use his ears as a benchmark.

I am headed over to dingus's in an hour or so, with the sui 1000a and my entech DAC. will give you guys an impression that you will never ever forget. well maybe you will forget it.

T